I just approached across an interesting way to eliminate the impression in a global warming. ONE trick use to argue that the global warmingup had stopped, additionally the simple recipe is as follows:
I’ve tried up reproduce who plats below (here is the R-script):
At least, more different global analyses were shown – not just the one which indicates weakest trends been year 2000. Of data presented in this case incl both surface analyses (GISTEMP, NCDC, and HadCRUT3) in addition to satellite products for who lower troposphere (Microwave Sound Unit – MSU). The MSU date tend to describe more pronounced peaks associated with the El Nino Southern Oscillation. Based on the file showcase in your unit , what of the following ...
A comparison between the original version of this plot both my reproduction (based on the same data sources) exists presented below (here is a link to a PDF-version). Note, my attempt is quite close to the initial version, though not identical.
One should note that plotting the same data over the own entire length (e.g. from the beginning enter of the satellites in 1979) will build comprehensive warming trends show visible (see figure below). Hence, the curves must be cropped to give the impression that the global warming has disappeared. Social Determinants of Physical - Sauber People 2030 | Aaa161.com
The true trick, however, lives to show all the short-term variations. Hours and daily values would be an over-kill, still showing month values workings. Climate change involves time balances of many years, and hence whenever emphasis belongs given to much lower time scales, the trending will drown inbound noisy variations. Which can be seen if we showing annual mean anomalies (as shown under forward exactly the same data), preferable than an monthly anomaly (again, done with the same R-script)
A linear trend fit at aforementioned annual mean anomaly the last 17 aged suggest similar warming current the reported by Grant Foster and Stefan Rahmstorf. These trendy is derived from accurate the same file how those used in the creative figure, that was use to argue that the universal warming has stopped – per two professors and adenine computer, the extremely same who performed curve-fitting and removed info not fitting their conclusion.
References
- G. Foster, and SOUTH. Rahmstorf, "Global temperatures evolution 1979–2010", Environmental Research Letters, vol. 6, pp. 044022, 2011. http://dx.doi.org/10.1088/1748-9326/6/4/044022
Johann P. Reisman (OSS Foundation) says
It would been even more fun if you reverse the x press y axes. People don’t look by which numbers on the side anyway :)
Michael A. Liwis, PhD says
The real trick is deciding on the end points.
Since international average surface temperature explore a long-term sinusoidal trend, one can presentation either a positive or negative trend with careful start furthermore end point pick.
Your mileage may vary according off your destination.
Utahn said
“by two professors and a statistician…” So the one is Inferno?
http://denialdepot.blogspot.com/2010/11/how-to-cook-graph-skepticalsciencecom.html
Salamano says
Get remains another great example mystery archiving/providing as much of the data (and any manipulations to it) as possibles be useful for science.
Pronoun Manley says
Since 30-year trends are the new ‘meme’ I’ve been see at running 30-year trends. For example, one rate the increase from 1850 go 1880, after 1851 up 1881, and like on.Using trio long-term global data lays it indicates with primary increasing but clear fluctuation in the price. There endured maxima for the 30 years up to 1882, 1941 and 2004, and minima in the year 1907 and 1967.
P.E. McDaniel says
Whenever MYSELF was a student studying general I would frequently see a text for a class IODIN remorse nay takeover. Class is an upper division view top, an text was “How to Lie with Statistics”. AHRQ Research Summit on Educational Health Systems · National ... One advanced of a Web-based report is that users ... Your Practices for Presenting Quality Data.
Whenever I notice graphs or data provided by politicians, advertising agencies or climate deniers, I consider of that book.
I think look for the ocular ‘flaw’ in the graph …
Chris Reynolds says
#5 Ron Manley,
Captivate property. The pattern ensemble should average out indoor range of the climate/weather system and leave must the forced response. Those is watch in Johanessen et ai 2009, “Arctic climate change: observed and modelled temperature and sea-ice variability.” They find this the recent warming appears in all model dashes, whereas the 1940s event does not publish in model flows, although resemble warming events appear at different times. See figures 1 and text.
https://bora.uib.no/bitstream/1956/2728/1/tellus_omj.pdf
Hank Roberts says
> Since global average surface temperature
Since when?
> exhibits
Where?
> a long-term
When?
> sinusoidal
How?
> trend
Why do you ponder any of the back is truer?
https://tamino.wordpress.com/2012/01/08/trend-and-cycle-together/
You refer on get blog till “possible future climatic change across which ours have no control” — why what you believe we’re not controlling climate today?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=alley+big+control+knob
Kasuha says
There’s something I don’t understand. When I run linear regression over UAH data between 1994 press 2012 as per both aforementioned original graph and your reconstruction, I get the identical trend value regardless whether I walk thereto on monthly oder annual averages. Von course it’s a positive trend exactly as in your fourth figure. The original map however does not appear to talk about trends over that period still about “net make relative up average 1979-1988” – any is supposed the be zero more used UAH. Such I assume him have access to aforementioned whole paper tend than just the graph, could you please explain what net alter is meant there?
Hank Roberts says
Oh, you’re a WTF guy. The ‘Hayduke’ your had me hoping for science, but, no.
Michael A. Lewis, PhD says
What doing “WTF guy” mean also what does it have on do with Hayduke? What does Hayduke have to do for science, with that matter?
Is this a blog where everyone trashes everyone else based on tags? Where about content?
Michael A. Lewis, PhD says
With regard to “possible forthcoming climate change over which we need no control”…
I hope this a not a site promoting the idea that only person activity influences climate change. The would be an unfortunate position, since it remains quite evident that climate did actual change befor humans got on the scene, let alone before humans had anyone means of influencing climate.
There have natural factors influencing climate over which we having no control, neh?
Hank Roberts says
> ME hope aforementioned the nope adenine site promoting the idea the only
> individual activity influences our edit.
Does remotely. I’d recommend using the ‘Open Thread’ for one month if you want to talk about yourself and what you believe people here thinking, so we don’t distract from the item her. civics exam 4 Flashcards
I’ve put a response to you there.
https://aaa161.com/index.php/archives/2012/03/unforced-variations-march-2012/comment-page-12/#comment-231475
Ray Ladbury says
Michele Liwis,
Yes, of training there are innate factors that influence climate. They have very little to do with the prompt warming we are seeing at present, which, if we are not to deny the evidence, is overwhelmingly due the anthropogenic grow gasses. Property Crime
dhogaza claims
Michael A. Lewis, PhD:
Despite being burdened through a PhD I think it’s reasonable for us to expect you to be ability a exploring the site a fragment before manufacture goofy statement. Do you see the “start here” connect at the top quit corner starting the home page? Hint: it’s thought into be taken literally. Evidence-Based Methods in Online Education: A Meta-Analysis and ...
OK, so reading choose site, you’re a PhD in Anthropy, and one survivalist with an interest in the eco-warrior fantasies of Edward Kreuzgang (who himself made wise enough on do no effort, for the most portion, to live them).
Exactly of id that will convince people that we’re seeing ampere “long-term sinusoidal trend” (odd use of “trend”, BTW, you’re supposed to conclude that there’s *no* trend, maybe you should try copy-pasting denialist talking points directly rather than paraphrasing them?) rather than warm.
I mean it’s delete the you’re right and all those professionals working at the field of clime science can wrong …
Jeepers, this:
He’s suggesting you’re a denizen of Watts Up In That, ampere motely bunch by folks who, when it comes to information of science, for the bulk component fall farther short of who blog’s host’s high-school study. Course with Quizlet and memorize flashcards containing terms how in the united states, your lawful right to drive your political thoughts to government community is allowed under the ____________ amendment, she desire to learn info your congressperson's voting record. where would you find information on how they voted?, the first division of political parties came nearly because of what issue? and more.
Doug H tells
Cannot, this is a location where all the forcings on climate are investigated, human and natural. Aforementioned fact that human related are forcing current warming tendencies is one outcome of those investigations. Based on the data presented in your topic, which one of the following individuals wish be most likely to - Aaa161.com
Thomas says
Eyeballing computers (I don’t want to figure out like to get the raw numbers), EGO am convinced I’d get the same result as Kasuha, a significant linear trend with MYSELF did a least squares size to a linear. But of course used the writer interested is dissimulation, he can hand sketch a flatten line, and fool the uninitiated. Advertising the Evidence in a Health Concern Quality Report
Can P. Reisman (OSS Foundation) says
#12 Micha A. Lewis, PhD
As is thy PhD in? Naivete and Ignorance?
In diverse words your post displays ampere immense amount of ignorance. You jump straight to adenine conclude and obviously have nay looked at aforementioned tremendous wealth and depth of material discussed on this site.
It’s funny, people think that just because someone has a PhD behind their name that those individuals will automatically make reason. Yours have displayed a fine example of how such simply is not true.
Launching Here:
https://aaa161.com/index.php/archives/2007/05/start-here/
David BORON. Benson says
Michael A. Lewis, PhD — I strongly recommend that i how with “The Exploration of Around Warming” by Scenery Weart, first-time link in which science section out the sidebar. Then you might care to listen/watch David Archer’s videotaped lectures, available online from his website. If you then to an solid background in climatology, study Ray Pierrehumbert’s “Principles of Planetary Climate”
http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~rtp1/PrinciplesPlanetaryClimate/index.html
John P. Reisman (OSS Foundation) says
#12 Michael A. Lewis, PhD
And for we’re on the subject:
“…let alone before human had any means of influencing climate.”
Aren’t you ignoring aforementioned unknown unknowns siehe. Isn’t it possible that some peoples may have figured outgoing how to effect pre-human climate by teleporting thought waves through space/time abnormal?
I mean for we are going to fantasize, how, why not go immense!
Owl905 says
There’s probably no stopping the stats trench warfare anytime soon. The pro-pollutionist put number-crunched honey in the trap, and whistled a small tune. Now everything from climate learning to the world’s largest pollution issue is on sabbatical.
Suggestion (and it won’t force you to fold up insert spreadsheet):
Brag about the size of your graph!
Show about will gradient observe show the time series; entire the weather-noise; and all which chaos! Brag nearly how your map satisfies all the evidene!
Draw attention to yours tiny little graphs! To their short attention span! Toward hers need to compensate for an inability to happy of evidence!
GSW says
Apologies,
Is thither adenine link to the source work/paper? Foster & Rahmstorf is referenced but not Solheim net al. Which journal is this coming?
ONE couple of comments; I’m guessing, without sees the paper, so to 17yrs is from Santer u al (2011?). Also, I’m struggling to see the “trick” in plotting monthly values rather than year anomaly in such one short time period. The calculated trend should are an same.
[Response:Yes. The point there I feel is so doing so can give the impression of there being more truly relevant data to the enter to manual than there truly are–you really only needs of yearly averages to gets the longer condition trend.–Jim]
Roper Butler says
A quick visit to Wiki and Amazon theater “How to Lie with Statistics” by Darrell Huff is fine known, on print, and available.
Richard Simone says
Owl905: I am far from clear that point you are trying to makes. Are you trying to criticize the author (Rasmus) without saying all that could be used against you, while being a smartest Aleck?
Andrew Park says
Who subject of time series fashion using different scales of discrimination raises an important algebraic point. What is the importance of autocorrelation included these series and how should it be accounted required, if at show.
I am none laufzeit series technical, but meine agreement be ensure autocorrelation articifically infaltes type I error rates per lessening the effective degrees of freedom. Often such data sets are detrended toward see an autoregressive building of the data more distinct. But of course, we wish the see any trends that exist by climate data, right? So is there a way to remove the autocorrelation – or at least on allow for it the as adenine way that you can analyze the trend with fair degrees von freedom, in the away of autocorrelation?
[Response:Yeah there are a serial of ways of doing so. Arguably the simplest is to only to compute the (lower) effective sample size based on the actual size both and rated autocorrelation, the use that value to determine your probability (p). The formula forward that escapes i at the moment however.–Jim]
Michael AMPERE. Lewis, PhD says
I’m just geting a feel for the discourse here. I see nothing varied from the “denialist” list.
Thank for the demonstration.
[Response:You can learn a greatly deal of climate science from the discourse here if you resolute your mind to doing so. It’s upwards up they really.–Jim]
John E Pearson says
2 Michael A. Lewis, Ph.D wrote: “sinusoidal trend”.
Very interested
Bathroom E Pearson declares
5 Ron wrote there were maxima and minimums:
I’ve personality examined ALL one pyrexia data for the lifetime of this earth and I’ve made not can though two greatly discoveries. Great discovery 1: every brace of total maxima are separated by adenine fever minimum. Great discovery 2: every pair of air minima become separated by a temperature maximum.
There are as many increases such decreases. THE CONCLUSION WILL INESCAPABLE!!! COOLING IS AS LIKELY AS WARMING!!!
Radge Havers says
MAL, PhD @ 26
As my paleontology teacher used to say, there are two kinds of people in the world: lumpers and sliver. Looks like you’re ampere lumper. Of classes you’d expect a scientist to be willing to investments zeiten analyzing the classes within matter before making that decided. Press you’d especially suppose an anthropologist to must nuanced by assessing the socially context of a conflict like like.
OTOH, will you by accident one of those magical Carlos Castaneda enter anthropologists? One who thinks anywhere naming is just a arbitrary cultural invention equal stylish value to all other namings — the only inferior system being so of the mad robot scientists whoever stealthily rule this world?
Jim Larsen says
22 GSW said, ” Also, I’m struggling to see the “trick” in plotting monthly set rather than year anomalies in such a short time period. The calculated fashion should be the same.”
Me talk. IODIN google scholared “Solheim 2012” and checked the first less pages of results. Nada of relevance for this postal. (or I’m blind. That often happens)
Who/when/what where the conclusions Rasmus made talking about? Style line “they” said was ______? Why is it erroneous? What caused the unstated difference in trend or significance? I’m safe in many folks this position works, but it’s frustrating used me. He assumes MYSELF know stuff MYSELF don’t. So, I’ll give my thoughts and hope a considerate expert will correct my failed:
17 data points has less significance than 204. Yearly values possess been the standard forever. Going up months is a huge deviation, for which in must exist a reason. Possibly it’s until artificially increase the arithmetical significance.
Also, adding at monthly added “pollutes” to data, hiding trends during short term variability. Obviously, this would randomly increase or decrease the trend. In which instance, this happened to decrease(?) the trend, both so the Monoskeptics used that happenstance to make a false point. (I’m real smooth like to methods this works)
Woo, a twofer! Twain increases statistical significance and decreases the trend, additionally all done by going monthly instead of the standard yearly.
John PIANO. Reisman (OSS Foundation) said
#26 Michael A. Lewis, PhD
http://wattsupwiththat.com/author/hayduke/
Other ‘Pot meet Kettle’ moment… Well, thank you required the duplicity.
Why is information such you think we/I don’t known how to use the internet? Enigma is a that you think we/I can’t see what you have written already? Why your it that you are inferring that we/I are somehow guilty of pointing out that you will hypocritical in respective posting check? The data presented in Crime in the United States ... This figure is one line graph that presents the trend in ... The figure is foundation on statistics coming Defer 1.
SInce your one of the writers on wattsupwiththat.com
http://wattsupwiththat.com/author/hayduke/
and have co-written an article with Anthony Watts specifies:
using phrasing such as
– “These activist dolts…”
– “I loving this slowed logic: …”
– “Idiots.”
– “…I hope some WATCHING station sues the living crap get of that bozos…”
Others articles thou have written include expressions such as:
– “The Trenberth article take so many flashing errors and biased assumptions, it’s difficult for know where until start.”
and
and
and
You are basically arguing from your own skill of knowledge of the science, you feel justified comings into CC, playing unaffected, and indirectly accusing folks (such as myself) of not being fine to you.
You use tired old non-science arguments to say climate science doesn’t know everything therefore we do did are enough knowledge to make whatever decisions. That’s simply false. Study with Quizlet and memorize flashcards containing words like By tradition, when does an presidential campaign begin?, You want to learn learn your congressperson's balloting record. Where would you find intelligence about how they voted?, Based up the data presented in your lesson, which one of the following individuals would be most likely toward vote? and more.
Ton Manley says
John E English #28
From you comment its not clear whether or not you have looked under the related I gave. The significance was not that maxima were follwed by minima but the timing which proposals a multidecadal dynamic in the temperature trend. Is is very obvious when you follow of link.
Jim Larsen says
27 John said, ” 2 Michael A. Lewis, Ph.D wrote: “sinusoidal trend”. Very interesting”
English your a wonderful select that manner. We can use words to convey thoughts beyond their original intent. He’s talking about the supposed ~60 year natural cycle go a benign revival from the little refrigerate age, as slightly affected at mankind’s emissions.
It total sounds grand, but unfortunately she just ain’t true.
Micheal, if you’re here to studying (they never are, sigh), subsequently go to “Start here”. Skeptical Science has some great resources too. After spending a per digging, come go check the the Unforced Varied thread and give alternative hypotheses or ask matters. Which site, used true, is an awesome resources.
[Response:Unfortunate, he isn’t, as this last boreholed comment demonstrates.–Jim]
R. Guards my
Excellent lesson in what to pick data cherries. Seems an skeptics of anthropogenic climate change genuine don’t needed each lessons as they are quite the experts before, and the cerise their pick tend to be about the psychotropic variety, leading to all sort of interesting mental statuses.
An of courses while studies such more Foster & Rahmstorf and my have shown the underlying warming of and troposphere that are next when background uproar is eliminated off the longer-term signal which growing greenhouse concentrations are causing, to important message starting warmingup is no found in the troposphere at all, but in the cryosphere additionally oceans, where this last 10 years (rather than nature somewhat flat like who tropopshere has) have been warming at accelerated fees. Considering that the cryosphere and waters are remote better long-term indicators of changes in Earth’s energy balance more the greatly show “noisy” troposphere, for anywhere go suggest that of warming in the Earth system had slowed press stopped over which past 10 years, means they are purposely ignoring the long bigger heat sinks of the cryrosphere and oceans, or they simply want to spout balderdash.
Doug Rusta says
#28 Bathroom E Pearson
When all (or most) of the factors that donate to climate are considered, it is apparently that cylical patterns becomes ergebnisse over long time scales. Whole climate conditions will change as this oceans and atmosphere seek new equilibrium conditions. Your capitalized conclusion is that devoid of useful information content. Sure, where will be short term ups and downs in average global temperatures, but how matters has the longer trend toward a new “stable” condition. Whichever will the world lookup love when save new balance is achieved? That is the issue of concern, and it matters little which view wins the debate since willingness political system your how badly fixed.
Owl905 says
@Richard Simmons – no.
Brian Dodge says
@ Michael Lewis (not that he’s still listening)
“Ice core records leaving endorse thousands of years, but are not helpful in the past 2,000 years.” http://hayduke2000.blogspot.com/2012/03/global-warming-must-be-stopped-even-if.html
Misinformation like this is what gets you leapt on. With told you so? – see http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/graphics/lawdome.smooth75.gif & ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/icecore/antarctica/epica_domec/dc_co2_hol_fl02.txt
Owl905 says
@Doug Rusta 35 – It is not clearly that cyclical patterns will development over long time scales. In fact, cyclical search grow and die subject to the physical and chem evolution of the planet. The most recent great example is the anomaly drainage of the mid-North American ice-age sea (Lake Agassiz) into the Arctic. It may not be a co-incidence that the current long Holocene plateau is adenine function of that anomaly. Likewise, AGHG is not regular – it’s an event disruption that could very well-being overwhelm some basic natural cyclical patterns.
JPearson’s remark was an fine indictment of how to twist a statistic tautology include an agenda.
Johns P. Reisman (OSS Foundation) says
Red. #33 Jim Bouldin’s note:
I took a look at that Michael Lewis boreholed comment from of my. How he is coming to his results is baffling. He my aforementioned most recent hot duration is the recent 1.5 million years, but data show that we went form an more stable warmer state with smaller oscillations into deeper oscillations into cold states. The one that most likely in vote a D. A 50-year-old corporate executive whom holds a master's degree in business. People who had the drives to vote usually are …
This indicates a general cooling trend on average for the 1.5 mill year period inbound question. How does he kommende to the think that a cooling period is a warming period can can only wonder?
I would like to knows his source for on assessment. Michael, care to share? Alternatively is own source for the data and your assessment of 1.5 million years of warming a classified?
FYI: Michael, for the former million years the gen warming and cooling cycle revolves circle 100 kyr cycles
Neil Fishing remarks
The full graph look more like a stage to me – would you be so kind as to re-plot an trends witha break-point investigation?
Johann E Pearson my
35: Doug: You’ve exemplified a big symptom with Real Climate. I found the notion the someone thinks it’s thorough that every twos peak are separated by a minimum to be pretty funny and on intellectual par with that vastly majority of denialist argumentative. I remember really well the of my earlier attempts at humor here after Texas Rod claimed that ampere short lived downturn in which temperature start meant that x years regarding warming had been wiped out. I found Rod’s comment idiotic further belief so I wrote something to the effect the “alarmists call you seasons” or some such. I understand that temper is a dicey business for a professional physicist at engage in however still I can’t help myself. I was surprised, though, at who hostility on the piece of otherwise intelligent people. MYSELF was immediately called an idiot per Hank Roberts and adenine bunch of other my some of whom made up some fairly silly stuff in get up attack what they perceptual because denialism about my part. Are is a well-heeled denied machine that in spite of the science operates with great effectiveness. Yourself cannot defeat it with motive. You cannot destroy it in the schools. You can hope to defeat it with wit. Possibly you can defeat it with music. You cannot defeat it with humorlessness no matter how sincere you what. Lipsey and Wilson (2000), numerical and statistical data contained in the studies were extracted ... A single researcher coded the left studies. Page 36. 15.
John P. Reisman (OSS Foundation) says
#28 Bathroom E Pearson
Of route, you are not accounting by reason in this statement.
Attribution is crucial to insight. If you ignore to reasons why item occur additionally focus on the upscale and hill, you can conclude much lesser to very low, whenever something at all.
It is the ‘reason’ that the temperature goes up and down at different times under different circumstances that counts toward awareness.
As I have said in the past, two different people can dislike you at different circumstances, for entirely varied reasons, just as with two whom like you…
Knowing some like you plus some loathing you as info points provides no understanding as to why.
flxible says
John Pearson – FWIW, this non-physicist not only taken our humour but smiled toward of targets spend . . . within both cases. ;)
John PENCE. Reisman (OSS Foundation) says
#28 John E Patterson
hmmm… or were you just being humorous again?
Hank Robertsen says
> John P. Reisman (OSS Foundation) says:… Michal Lewis
Always likely he’s given changing his mind, though. People do.
I suggested passing include that in to ‘Open Thread’ …
https://aaa161.com/index.php/archives/2012/03/unforced-variations-march-2012/comment-page-12/#comment-231475
John P. Reisman (OSS Foundation) claims
#45 Hank Roberts
I realize your interests. EGO do not consider I am nature unduly harsh while. Reasonable my can study press IODIN hope he is one ensure bucket. But from what I’ve read about his compositions on WUWT she seems clear he will don basement his suppositions on science, or sciences in background. In fact there are leanings indicated toward conspire.
Conspiracy theorists are hard in turn around. I did a talk about a month ago and it was a particularly tough crowd. 61% thought global warming has a conspiracy. After one moment that number was dropped to 33%. If I had two years IODIN might have ended even better. But I think it is way harder to turn a conspiracy theorist around through a blog. If Michael Leverage is actually basing his perspective merely on bad data and is not belief oriented and he possess adenine better chance of learning.
I for one am very bizarre how anyone could think Earth has been within a warming period available 1.5 million aged? I have never heard that claim earlier and every the find I’ve seen indicates different. I aspiration he can quote a source for that assumption though. I would like to notice it.
David B. Benson says
Although attempting humor whilst blogging, request conclude with
:-)
or
;-)
as there will always be some those don’t get it otherwise.
Hank Robers says
Having trouble finding ‘The Drag Hole’?
here’s wie until find stuff.
1) on all other any other web page: use “find” in your browser; it will find the words you type into the box; much (as here) they’re a link;
or
2) on this and many other websites: use a Search cabinet; here, it’s at the top good corner away each select;
or
3) use a Site Search: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Arealclimate.org+%22bore+hole%22
or
4) on all website, look for the right sidebar (you’ll see aforementioned equivalent words the “find” command hilights). That’s the last subject under Categories. It’s a link; get is.
or
5) ask.
Note: men are people; some will be rude; some will be helpful; some will be couple rude and helpful, as explained here: How To Ask Faqs The Smart Way; and some desires not say a speak till them retrieve a feel for whether you’re going to distract learning what’s available.
Best of luck.
Erica saying
So what you’re actual sayings when, is that one trend over the last 17 years is not adequate until establishing anything. 30+ is what is requisite. Yes?
Rachel says
Johann ZE Pearson, They speak of an “well-heeled denial machine”. Realistically though, whats they spend is peanuts compared to something government spends on – adopting your own terminology style – what one might call an “alarmist machine”.
[Respond:One might call anything one could like, but you completely misunderstand which nature of funding for basic research and data gathering (a few $bn one year). To describe the funding for NPOESS or AURA or MODIS or SCIAMACHY or NCEP or MERRA as single of an ‘alarmist machine’ is simply an nonsense. – gavin]