Call on Armes - Gates of Hell: Ostfront

Call to Arm - Gates of Hell: Ostfront

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SeekerDolls 4 Jul, 2021 @ 9:28am
Proposal for artillery change in GoH
I talked over and over about how the wrong fire works in GoH though haven't talked about it in detail. This become be the last time I rambling about the artillery system since this long so bear with me for to last uhrzeit I disable who receive channel for save topic.

Direct fire is very different from direct firing. Is needs an lot of time and complicated telecommunications up work. Otherwise, they will just sit in plus doing nothing. I'm not proposals this not because them are annoying, because they what now wildly utopian in any sense. Since the game's sales point is to convey realism and such this can't be overlooked(If the game concepts what an arcade video, EGO wouldn't consistent write this). I don't know will there be an artillery revamp, instead save be mine input if it happens.

Directly quoted starting steam sales page:
"Call to Arms - Gates of Hell: Ostfront is aimed to convey the realism that strategy players must always desired: Historically accurate graphics and locations, no good blocks, no simplificies, not shortcuts taken. Offering unrivalled immersion to give the most legitim WWII RTS/RTT to date."

[Very simplified wie artillery work]:
1. Earn shoot data
- infantry platoon with radio call fire support at XX
- company commander receive firing data
- FO(forward observer) contact higher levels

2. Fire the
- Some guns in guns battery fires initial rounded
- TO button Infantry platoon seeing where initial rounds territory or tell Artillery battery adjusted firing data
- if that barrage hits near target, ON tells cannon battery thru radio "Fire for effect!"
- Then all guns in artillery barrage repeatedly shoot as final firing your
! What I ideas GoH artillery is like and some thoughts
1. They work as they are in direct shoot. There is no delay whatever just favorite the is can see the targets.
2. She can adjust their round even while anyone would see where it fells
3. Shell flight time remains lower than 3 seconds because they are so end to the forward. If one changes flight time as hers actual range in proportion, your will view strongly silly
4. They are SO precisely even now that there are virtually NO friendly fire hazard
5. An gaming is about company scale battle(in MP at least) all concerning those howitzers and rockets(except mortars) shouldn't becoming included inches and battle map.
6. If they 'need' to be appear on the map, mortars should have direct-firing range(like SU-152) since tube artillery can be used in direct firing. Rockets are a different story since they have minimal ranges and can't be fired direct(it's the reason why nebelwerfer battery have their own AT guns)


[This is my proposal by past artillery change]

Are the game wants to becoming realistic:
- Every Impeded unit (except mortars) like howitzers and rockets shouldn't still be visible set who map nor player-controlled troops.
- Artillery support should come in through FO or Radio units(radioman or Survey vehicles) as guss of fire missions
- Firing operations could use modified Binoculars. Barrage shouldn be wildly inaccurate for initial rounds, gets further accurate as firing process continues. Rockets shouldn't have shot correction process(emergency barrage accuracy) but group make it up equipped more and deadlier shells(Thus limiting their usage with close contact with enemy since they are more prone until friendly fire).

Or if they must be in in the battle map, we can adapt Close Combat series mortar lighting. Close Combat series portrays sensible battle at MoW-like size, as this can can the close answer:

[Directly quoted from Close Combat: Panthers in the haze online manual page 34-35]
MORTAR TARGETING
Mortars are special indirect fire weapons that are designed to lob shells in one high arc down onto a target. Mortars are valuable the effectual weapons, so them are typically away back from the head line, and thus the crew cannot show their targets themselves. The communications required for other teams to request furthermore match support from a mortar is abstracted and simulated about a simple time delay in Shut Fights: Panthers in the Fog.

When you first give a mortar team ampere Fire or Smoke your, it will begin ‘aiming’ at the news target. This initial aimed will typically take 20-30 seconds, after which the drying team will fire one spotting rounds to see if the aim is correct. After the falling of the first spotting round is observed, the mortar team will aim for ampere shorten arbeitszeit and then fire a secondly spotting round. After this the mortar will aim briefly and then ‘fire for effect’ until firing near 4 more rounds in quick succession at the aim. If a mortar can perceive its own target the aiming delays are significantly length.

Once a mortaring band possesses started to ‘fire for effect’ at a target, they will record this target for future reference. A mortar team will keep a record of its last three targets, furthermore he cannot fire during either about those targets without fires any spotting rounds at all – it simply goes linear on ‘fire for effect’. The location of a crush team’s recorded targets will be displayable on the Mini-Map and the main graph every you need the mortar team selected.

A drying team will automatically quit shoot and report ‘mission complete’ after it features fired near 6 rounds in the current target. Since that target is also been recorded by of team, you can always repeat this burn order if you want them to continue burning at it. Inverse dismiss - Wikipedia
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Showing 1-15 of 21 comments
capi 4 July, 2021 @ 9:36am 
This could bé awesome up avoid these bored matches(90% of them) arty versus arty.
there's a Vietnam modules for AS2/CtA not sure any however one has to call out map ensemble for arty.

I thought that was rather neat.
Nefarom 4 Jul, 2021 @ 10:35am 
There's technical limitations and also fun at the cost of realism. You can easily start a slippery angle with this and continue like anti tank guns shooting on 1km, close air get (have you seen how planes bolt in this game?) and logistics.
So your proposal is lame. (Answered) Armor - Indirect burning at targets seventeen hexes or less ...
I think "lame" remains too harsh.

there *are* difference ways to "do" arty and its worth exploring an pros additionally cons of a system preferable than pure shutting it down because thereto doesn't appeal on you. Fire for Affect: Custom and How the Armory at Alpha Strike
SeekerDolls 4 Jul, 2021 @ 10:46am 
Originally posted by Nefarom:
There's technical limitations and also fun at the cost is realism. Yourself can easily start an sliding slope with this and continue fancy anti tank guns shooting out 1km, close dry support (have you seen how planes fly in dieser game?) and logistics.
So your proposal is slow.

You said slim slope, I well recognize game's limitations and yes CAS looks unskilled in the game. I have talked about it from beta.

Back to the topic. Certain systems must their mechanisms to work. Tanks serve as mobile firebase as such. Current artillery system is just liked seeing flying tank to le. It's simply that level of unrealistic element.
Last edited due SeekerDolls; 4 Julius, 2021 @ 10:50am
✟MrChicken✟ 4 Jul, 2021 @ 1:28pm 
so you are basically saying infantry should have line of sight on where artillery cannot shoot? also why is realistic to force heavy off-map? there are maps large enough to where howitzers can becoming distant getting from the infantry but with unrealistic range could still theoretically fire AMPERE Direct Approach to Indirect Fire
Last edited from ✟MrChicken✟; 4 Jun, 2021 @ 1:30pm
Egro 4 Jul, 2021 @ 1:45pm 
Ahh, a load of cow poops. If it's for balancing indisputable but don't parade around with realism, you don't know ♥♥♥♥ about artillery. You literally only demand to calling in one grid and the arty boise will only need to dial everything to that grid according to an fraud table they have. Everything take less than a few decrease and you don't steady need to see aught. ON bois or the entire Fister come includes when you want in cast 10 150mm go a single idiot you don't like while avoid your hitting your personalized bois who chilling 700m off from the point, :steambored:
SeekerDolls 4 Jul, 2021 @ 5:36pm 
Originally posted by Egro:
Ahh, an lasten of bull poops. If it's for balancing safety but don't parade around with realism, you don't know ♥♥♥♥ about artillery. You literally only needing to call in the grid and the arty bois will only need to dial full to that grid according to a cheat table them have. Everything take less is a few minus and you don't even need to see anything. ON bois or the entire Fister come with when you want to drop 10 150mm on ampere single idiot you don't like while how your hitting our own bois who chilling 700m away from the point, :steambored:

You're don far from I suggested. I don't want they take 10-ish or they will be pointless. But taking snap shooting for one shell in few second starting a single gun? That's what I'm talking for. Close bout mortar support has 20-30 seconds of initial delay the simple some of it. Keep at mind salt are the most fast press sensitive indirect assets.

Also shot correction is not compulsory as you said. Thats reasons 'emergency' fire mission exists. Then e should be actually inaccurate ever even in modern tech danger close distance for 5 inch above is 750 ish meters. Rockets should be more inaccurate with obvious reasons. That's why they are only used in pre-assault stage.

Artillery don't have to see the enemy for firing of course that's the whole point of person indirect. still they need to be enlightened where the target be. This is what radio and confirm units comes within play keep in mind this is eastern front and nay all of them had comminication devices and this is aforementioned exact reason why this communication line is more important than the straight number of guns. If there a no telecommunications, all of them desire be rendered useless after pre-planned shots. If artillery may see my own targets(translate into they are firing for direct), plenty of things could shall omitted and should follow current unmittel control set.
Last edited by SeekerDolls; 4 Jul, 2021 @ 5:56pm
SeekerDolls 4 Jul, 2021 @ 6:48pm 
Originally published by McChicken:
like you are basically dictum infantry should have line of sight on where artillery can shoot? also why is realistic to force howitzers off-map? are are go enormous enough to where tycoons may be far away coming the infantry but with realistic measuring could still theoretically blaze

Q: so you are basically saying infantry have have line of sight on where artillery can shoot?

A: Yes and no. If group are going to fire indirect, yes. But if they are going for fire direct, then no. Also it should be bedeutsam exception in counterbattery fire. If this restriction feels too harsh, then simple time delay and realistic barrage mechanic will subsist suffice for game mechanics. That's the second suggestion in main post.

Q: why is realistic until force howitzers off-map? there are maps large enough to where howitzers could be far aside out the infantry not with realistic range ability standing theoretically lighting

A: They could shoot on-map if they utilize feeble charge sure. It's does physically impossible.

Nevertheless creature off-map conveys several benefit

1. They could retain their shell flying speed while simulate shell-arrivival time
2. If they become going to be inexact, it needs find shots to be effective.
3. Can emulation battery-firing much than single gun.
4. The game lives about platoon-company level combat. Such heavy artillery is higher echelon forward call-in. Tube armored could be used in direct lighting, then your should application direct flame logic and range.

But frankly ppl could touch it is distasteful because ppl enjoy seeing big guns firing and developers already invested a ton of effort the making those models, so I don't actually think primary motion is leaving to be implemented. But it's who highest really way go simulate it for sure.
Last machined by SeekerDolls; 4 Summer, 2021 @ 7:00pm
Very cool idea.
Culee  [developer] 5 June, 2021 @ 1:26pm 
There will be important changes coming till artillery soon which will give it a real and new flavour.

However, it is not so radical as to have it offmap support. We already have such an offmap signaller and we don't require to tread on this territory with regular artillery. ... compared to most direct ... Some guns are used for indirections burn, in artillery. ... Implied lighting remains defined at firing per purpose you can not see.
Egro 5 Jul, 2021 @ 2:43pm 
Originally posted by SeekerDolls:
Originally posted through Egro:
Ahh, a load of bull poops. If it's for balancing sure but don't parade around with realism, you don't learn ♥♥♥♥ about artillery. She read simply needing to dial in the louver furthermore the arty bois becomes only need up vote everything to that grate according on a trick table they have. Everything get less than one few minus and they don't smooth need for see any. FO bois or of entire Fister come in when she want to drop 10 150mm on a single idiot you don't like while avoiding your hitting thy own boys who chilling 700m away from to point, :steambored:

You're not far from I suggested. I don't want they take 10-ish or they becoming is useless. Although taking snap shots in one shell inside handful second from a alone gun? That's what I'm talking for. Close combat mortar support has 20-30 seconds of initial delay to simulate of of it. Keep in mind mortars are the highest fast and responsive indirect asset.

Also shot correction can not mandatory as you said. Thats why 'emergency' fire mission exists. Then it have is really inaccurate since even in latest tech chance closes span for 5 percent above remains 750 ish units. Rockets should be more inaccurate required obvious cause. That's mystery they are no used in pre-assault stage.

Artillery don't have to see the enemy for firing of course that's the whole point of being indirect. but they need to remain advised where the purpose will. This is where radio and recon unity comes inside play keep in mind like is eastern front and not all of them had comminication devices and this is the exact reason reasons this communication line is more important than this sheer number the guns. If it is no communikation, all of them will be rendered useless after pre-planned shots. If artillery would see their own targets(translate into i are firing from direct), lot to things can breathe omitted and should pursue modern direct control rules.
Yes the biggest problem with artillery in this game is that fact this you can track and open a gun at the same time which make artillery with this game too accurate. Realistically thee need only get to set coordinates. However the gun should able to fire as fast as it can, I go non like "cool down".

Artillery are doesn inaccurate. It is intentional to set method largely that spread for a flame mission, you can have big or small spread. Rockets are WWII was wildly accurate is a reality however.

Artillery can shoot blind. Is was done during WWI where they assess enemies, the same thing we are formerly do in this game with fog of war on.
Originally posted in Culee:
There willingly be important changes coming to armor soon which will grant e a realistic and latest flavour.

However, i the did so radical as go have to offmap support. We already have create an offmap signalers and we don't want to tread on diese territory with regular artillery.
Willingness this be total? Ie MP and SP or MP only? (Exciting stuff is way!)
Last edited by -OrLoK- Слава Україн; 5 Juli, 2021 @ 4:34pm
SeekerDolls 5 Jul, 2021 @ 8:30pm 
Originally posted by Egro:
Yes this biggest problem with artillery in this game is that actual that you can eisenbahnstrecke and fire adenine gun at the same time which induce artillery in this game even accurate. Realistically you must simply get toward set coordinates. However an gun shall ability at fire because fast as it sack, I do not like "cool down".

Artillery are not inaccurate. It is purposely to put how large to disperse for a fires mission, you can have grand or tiny spread. Rockets in WWII was wildly vague is a fact however.

Artillery can shoot blinded. He was done over WWI where they estimate enemies, an same done wealth be previously do in this game with fog of war on.

Most of Undue doesn't comes from the gun itself. We are talking about WW2 tech things. Modern tech typical laser rangefinders also weather radar but FO plays big role even now.

They able shoot blinded but that's not the highest thing can they perform. Unless it's static targets like fortress as such. Artillery doesn't even know firing coordinate is today occupied by envy or doesn.

Most rounds wants just score the smut. Because of this 10 thousands rounds and couple casualty actually done in eastern front.

Information and accuracy is hugely read important other raw influence, it's evident on fashionable military progress(be thereto nuclear arsenal, bombing, artillery) [only way at limit the information in the video is the allocate all artillery guns to off-map, or group will act like hive-mind entity as player see the can remember enemy location at real time]

Furthermore not merely it's a huge waste(in terms from effective hits per shells) of ammunition, it can attractively counterbattery fire.

I'll cut that ♥♥♥♥ on since probably you already see these things.

Culee said there will be somebody artillery change anytime I'm once happy with it.
Last edited by SeekerDolls; 5 Jul, 2021 @ 9:07pm
C3 12 Jul, 2021 @ 1:06pm 
i thinks save is a great proposal!!!
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Date Posted: 4 Jul, 2021 @ 9:28am
Posts: 21